Thorin and analyst Mauisnake invited FUT coach coolio to discuss what changes Yang joining FUT will bring, but NAVI came up. As the former NAVI Junior coach, coolio described NAVI's performance as "ugly," and even mentioned rumors that NAVI had privately contacted his own players (FUT players), so coach coolio shared his views on the current predicament of the NAVI main roster. (Additional background: FUT signed four players from NAVI Junior other than makazze plus coach coolio as a package, but FUT is currently ranked ninth while the NAVI main team is ranked 23rd.)
Thorin: By the way, the problem with this tournament is just as you analyzed. It really could have been the best event of the season, but you're right, all those asterisk-like things did kind of ruin it. And NaVi and G2 played like shit in this tournament, which didn't help either, you could say it ruined the tournament too. We could have had a super stacked bracket, but anyway, it is what it is, right? Okay, let's move on. Now let's get into the next segment of the show: "The Ugly." So, coolio, what looks ugly right now?
coolio: Yes, I mean, I've been thinking about what I should share here. I was a bit hesitant, but I'm going to betray my friends a little this time. So, the "ugly/bad" case in my mind is Navi, because I think this might be the lowest point of their careers. Like... I'll discuss it in a friendly way, but for me, it's really sad to watch them play CS now. Every time I turn on their matches, I feel awful. I think this team is dead in name only. And there were rumors before that they contacted my players (FUT) and stuff, so for me, talking about this is a bit crazy.
Thorin: So this is more or less your responsibility? (joking)
coolio: Hmm?
Thorin: So them playing this badly is more or less your fault. If they had dziugss and dem0n, things would be much better, right?
coolio: Yeah, it would be much better. (laughs) Yes, exactly. Totally agree. But this is really crazy, you know. I grew up watching CS. Navi has always been one of my top clubs. I was once a part of it, and now seeing them, I don't even know where they've been ranked in recent months, like around the top 35. It's shocking to see them like this... seeing them actually having to sign up for this HyperX LAN (just over ten thousand dollars in prize money) to secure their Major qualification, that's just shocking.
Navi has the chance to face a team of 258 Teletubbies
So they really hit rock bottom, it was so ugly to watch. I think they know that themselves, which is why I dare to bring up this topic here. But, yes, it looks like this team has completely fallen apart. I can't see anyone enjoying playing in it. Whenever there's a match, all you see is frustration written all over everyone's faces, it feels like they're just waiting for the match to be over. No trust, no belief. I think they just want to get this season over with quickly and then make some roster changes or something like that. But it looks really bad. I'm also worried, I don't know what will happen to them in Bucharest, but this is definitely extra pressure because they haven't won enough matches in the Pro League. They lost to PV, honestly, that should have been a comfortable win for them, they shouldn't have lost. And the way they lost was absurd, like that 11-11 round, they went for a very late retake and got the defuse off at the last second. They were in a 3v3 situation, honestly, they should never have lost that round. But after you lose that round, throw away the opportunity in that way, everything just gets even worse. Then, I think, if they go back to practice to prepare for Bucharest, the atmosphere within the team is definitely not going to be good. It can't be good, it's too hard to fix. Yes, I think this is crazy.
So I predict Navi will also make changes at the end of the year, that's my prediction. I think this is a step they have to take to save this team, because the atmosphere within the team looks too bad, and I feel they no longer enjoy playing together with each other. So, yes, this is the "ugly" case I picked.
Mauisnake: Indeed, NAVI is absolutely the hardest team to watch right now, because heading into the match against PV, I firmly believed they were massive favorites. I thought the talk about them potentially missing the Major was completely overblown and that they would definitely get back on track. To some extent they did, but then they lost to PV... It's not that their chances of qualifying are low or anything, but for a team you think should have locked up a spot, a team usually ranked in the top five, to still be in a relatively dangerous position now is just absurd.
What's even more frustrating is that for the first half of the season, up until the Major, they were the consensus second-best team. Although they played poorly at the Major, their prior wins, and the relative stability they showed compared to teams like Spirit and Mouz who were struggling to find form at the time (made me favor them overall). Yes, by and large I would rank Navi ahead of them, until they crashed out at the Major, and then that slump just... just carried on. I thought the player break would rejuvenate this team to some extent.
But the most painful part of watching their matches is that I really can't pinpoint exactly who the one or two weak links holding the team back are. For example, yes, I do wish makazze could get more kills from some of his defensive positions, but there have also been many matches where b1t has done nothing from the defensive spots where he has traditionally played as the star player. And in some matches, makazze hasn't taken the map space you'd expect him to control. For instance, Ancient used to be their strong map — in the first season last year they were the best Ancient team — but now the map is completely broken because makazze has lost his consistency on it.
I don't know if it's because the team set him up so poorly with utility or for some other reason, but that's why I won't put all the blame on any one person. I mean, I know some people's attitude is very — and this also represents the general view of the community, and it's usually my view too — I like to figure out exactly who the problem is on the team and pin it down. But with this team, I can't simply say: "Oh, it's all because makazze's form has dropped off."
If so, where was b1t in these rounds? Where is the T-side tactical system that once led this team to countless victories? Because those tactics simply can't save them now. The strangest thing about the game against PV was that w0nderful played really well, b1t played terribly on the defensive bombsites, yet they managed a huge comeback on offense — while for NAVI over the past three months, putting together a decent T-side offense on Mirage has been the hardest thing to do.
So, it's like a never-ending cycle of rotating problems, I can't even focus my dissatisfaction, anger, and frustration with this team on any single point. My frustration is simply that they made us believe last season that they were strong title contenders. For example, they beat Vitality and won several trophies, and I thought: "Great, we have another strong team, B1ad3 and Aleksib are back, they've successfully turned the team around." But now it seems like we were fooled by a lie.
The team we're seeing now is worlds apart from that team back then. I don't even know whether to say "save w0nderful," "save b1t," or "save makazze," because if you look at individual map stats alone, each of them bears responsibility for some of the most painful losses NaVi has suffered this season. So it's really... it's really a very tricky, very difficult situation. And I think it really does come down to the atmosphere within the team, which is what coolio mentioned. I mean, it's interesting, by the way, I want to emphasize this again, a professional coach is also echoing a point we've mentioned before, that being the "vibes." In fact, it is precisely the team's atmosphere that has led this roster astray, because you can't say it's entirely Aleksib's fault, or entirely makazze's fault, or any one individual's personal responsibility.
Thorin: Let me ask you a question. Obviously, makazze was once your teammate. In Navi, do they use him the same way as he was used on your team?
coolio: No, obviously not. Honestly, our youth training system back then wasn't really that well-developed, and compared to now, we've made amazing progress.
First of all, NAVI Youth was initially just a project aimed at developing players, not at building a fully-formed team. It was only because everything clicked together so perfectly later on that we started to form a team. But back then we did almost no targeted preparation for matches. We played, I don't know, maybe four BO3s a day, and sometimes we just rushed out and killed everyone, because at this level, our players were individually twice as strong as their opponents. So when makazze joined NAVI, we were well aware of this, and I also discussed it with B1ad3 (NAVI coach) — he had to understand how tactical preparation works and how to fit into the tactical system.
At NAVI, they might have, I don't know, around 60 tactical rounds, while in the academy we might have 60 in total across all maps combined, whereas they might have 60 tactics on a single map. So for him, fitting into this team is very difficult. But what I'm glad about is that they still want him to stay aggressive and take the initiative, so they haven't changed his individual style — he still actively looks for engagements, it's just that the tactical structure is completely different. So that's it.
But this worked at the very beginning,
So it's not like they misused him, I think he still has plenty of freedom, but at some point something went wrong, and trust may have collapsed as well. As you can see, there is absolutely no atmosphere in the team right now, something must have gone wrong, and both sides always have different ways of solving problems. For example, you can try playing more matches, holding a boot camp, and practicing harder to fix mistakes, but sometimes that's not the solution. I think sometimes you can give the team a break, like resting for one to two weeks, relaxing, and resetting.
To be honest, I think this is exactly what Navi is lacking, because I feel they are under too much pressure, and in my view they might be working a little too hard. Moreover, if you struggle in a tournament and then your form is still bad in practice, things will definitely still be bad in the next tournament. My personal understanding of CS is that everyone started playing this game because we enjoy it; if you no longer enjoy playing CS, you can't perform at your best. So, once you have that feeling, it's already very hard to perform at your best. You need to be in that "flow" state, you need to enjoy the game, so that you can deliver your best performance. I think this is exactly what Navi is missing right now.
And if you see reports of the club reaching out to other players, that's probably not a good thing for any player in the world. You get a gut feeling: "Okay, that person could be me." You don't know who will get kicked, but you just get this feeling: "Okay, I'm playing terribly, maybe they'll kick me, they want to replace me, otherwise why would they be contacting someone else?" There's no trust from the club, maybe no trust from the coach either, you know, it's really too hard to perform at your level in such an environment. Of course, NaVi is a different topic now, but what I'm trying to say is, if the community hates you, and you don't get the club's trust either because you see them looking for someone else, how can you expect the team to get good results? I think that's just impossible. To some extent, everyone is just an ordinary person, we're not robots, everyone has emotions. I think, yes, they need to dig deep to fully resolve this issue.